Thanks for your post. It is spot on. You are so with it on creating renewable jobs here to reduce our carbon footprint and help our economy.

What concerns me is how long major technology transitions have taken in the past. I wonder if anyone has assessed what money and resource it would take, as well as a timeline to move our electricity to say 30% renewables, our 30% of our cars to hybrids or electric, and to increase our mass transit by 30%. I like the idea of backcasting, where we define where we need to in 10 years in terms of renewables, cars, and mass transit and building water and energy efficiency retrofits (assume equiring all new buildings to be LEEDs certified now). With current technology fixes defining what that mix has to be in ten years would allow us to lay out a program to get there. I don’t think we, our government has done that. I could almost see the program to get there as a shared purpose like getting a man on the moon.

Debbie

I am with you. I don’t understand why the public and those responsible for our national security aren’t making getting off foreign oil the top priority. I guess we are not good at a little short term pain ($1+ tax on gas, no car idling, no drive-throughs, no sale of low gas mileage cars, no coal fired plants, no nuclear plants, etc.) for our long term health.

I am one of the alarmed group in relation to Global Warming, but I actually am more alarmed by our dependence on oil and coal.

One note: 51% of us are convinced that global warming is happening and happening due to man. However, that means 49% are not sure, don’t know, or don’t think so. The 49% struck me too. We aren’t close to a tipping point.

Thanks for your post,

Debbie

I apologize for lumping you in the dismisser category. Glad our differences are not irreconcilable. I am for clean energy and conserving resources too.

Just as a note
I didn’t find the first two sites you gave as credible (the first was a politician and the second was from a conspiracy theory proponent) and the third seemed to indicate to me that the sun has not been causing global warming at least since the last solar cycle. I can agree that the next solar cycle (2013) may add to the global warming problem, but it is clearly not the leading cause.

Dr. Spencer’s site was excellent. He has credibility both from an education and filed of research standpoint. I was fascinated with his view (and hope that climate sensitivity proves to be less sensitive than thought), as I was with the views in the book The Deniers and others I read so I heard both sides of the story. However, I have to align my thinking with the position of the majority of scientists worldwide and the physical evidence before our eyes and that is that climate change is an urgent issue. Like you though I want to both sides of the issue researched and debated. I am aghast that many scientists that held anti-climate change views were practically tarred and feathered and run out of town. I don’t like that kind of group think. But, until we know differently, we need to reach a better tipping point for action on climate change. I will spend more time Spencer’s site.

It is interesting to me that only 18% of America is alarmed by global warming and taking some action. Equally compelling an issue to me is our spending of over $700B/year on foreign oil. I think it will bankrupt us, since it will only go up. I think it is a severe national security issue too. There must be a way to forecast the impact of shelling out over $700B every year to overall American financial welfare. For that matter, there ought to be a way to do that with our trade deficit. Global warming or not, our extreme over-consumption will be our downfall. In fact, in some ways I am not sure if it matters whether Global Warming is real, we need something that gives us a common purpose to reduce consumption. If global warming is it, more power to it.

Debbie

The price of oil is going to sky rocket up and if we can’t get off of our need of carbon then we will be stuck. We need to fix the problem and not by hesitating by trying to make a change now so that we can set a positive example for those that will follow our footsteps. As Americans whatever we do is going to followed because in the spectrum of the world we are the leaders and if we continue to make a negative impact so will every other country.

Develop renewable energy at home so that we can develop jobs at home. Create renewable energy jobs by creating renewable energy plants. When creating these renewable energy technologies use renewable energy. By using these tactics not only will the climate go positive but also our economy will slowly go positive also.

What struck me is that the majority of Americans are more or less dubious at how climate change is real.

To them, I would say : ” Fine, even if there is no such thing as climate change / global warming we still have to decrease the amount of oil, coal and natural gas we burn.

By doing so we will send less money overseas (sometimes to people who downright hate us), develop alternatives that will create million of jobs that won’t be sent overseas, decrease pollutions of all kinds and also avoid massive problems when the productions of these energy sources will peak.

This is not exactly a gloomy prospect or something that will ” take our freedoms away… “. Quite the opposite in fact !

I have no disagreement with you. I have only left you with 3 links in regards to global warming. Please check the dates on your data on global warming and really take a look at 2007, 2008, and 2009, as most articles and data written about global warming were correct for their time period up to around 2006-2007. However, what may have been correct at one time point is not valid indefinitely.

This site is about global warming: http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/

Our differences are not irreconcilable. I am 100% for clean renewable energy. Fighting pollution and conserving what resources you have is purely wise, as our population grows and resources are limited.

Kindest Regards

It is clear you are both ‘dismissers’ according to this study. I disagree with you. We aren’t making sufficient progress on pollution and conservation. Global Warming is of highest priority and urgency, as is getting off foreign oil so we don’t bankrupt ourselves. Having dealt with deniers before and according to this study, I know that I can’t change your minds. I do hope there is common ground whether it is based on the rapidly decreasing availability of fresh water, the bankrupting nature of our payments of over $700B/year for foreign oil.

I am not sure why you made comment that Christians are the only ones understand the right to make choices, instead of being forced to follow mandates. I am a Christian and know there is a place for each. We, the American public, are not making the right choices. How could we be when we are 5% of the world’s population using over 25% of the world’s energy, by orders of magnitude contributing more pollution/person than almost any other country in the world, and by far using more of the world’s resources than almost any other country in the world? Global Warming aside, this is just selfish and greedy, not very Christain. Mandates are critical to good stewardship of the commons–our waters, our land, and our atmosphere. You or I don’t have the right to use energy, land, water, or air just because one of us can afford to. Systems thinking clearly speaks to the tragedy of the commons. To address preserving and restoring the commons, the system requires new mandates, rules, incentives.

I also disagree that the world is getting colder. I have read and read both sides of the issue and the factual evidence is clear. The world is getting warmer. The first thing we face, already face all over the world now, is the significant reduction in fresh water availability. Here, in the US we still treat water as a free commodity jeopardizing our future, our children’s future, and future generations. Atlanta and Tampa are the best recent examples of lack of mandates to preserve their water resource. You’ll hate this, but I think nationwide everyone should be given a quota of water they can use/day and then the pump shuts off. Long ago we should have made drought water restrictions standard across the US. We are totally irresponsbile in our use of water. Many times you need mandates to drive behavior change. We are consciously and unconsciously addicted to high volumes of water and energy at home and in business. This is another complex systems trap called shifting the burden where we continue doing what we are doing versus dealing with the root cause, i.e., changing how we do business and changing our lifestyles.

The impact of Global Warming disruptions is much bigger than fresh water availability as is the bankrupting of the US to buy foreign oil at over $700B/year. I have read The Deniers, looked at numerous Web sites, including the ones above, and still can only come to one conclusion based on the facts, we have overshot the carrying capacity of the earth both in resources we use and the pollution we create. There are clear limits to growth using the Western Industrialization model. I truly think we are arguing details on these sites and even in the Deniers. The Natural Step science-based principles for sustainability are principles that I think all of us can use to achieve common ground. If you have the time, please read The Natural Step Story: Seeding A Quiet Revolution. It is not political and based in rudimentary science that no one disagrees with. I will be doing a series of posts on The Natural Step, since I think it is an elegant approach to sustainability and enables common ground.

I love debate too as my family could tell you. However, if our differences are irreconcilable, then it is not a fruitful use of our time.

Debbie

http://dougmood.com/SunSpots.aspx

http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2008/01/13/nasa-solar-cycle-may-cause-dangerous-global-cooling-in-a-few-years-time/

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/29may_noaaprediction.htm

Are the “Christians” the only ones that seem to understand the importance and significance of stewardship and agency (the right to make choices, instead of being forced to follow mandates)?

The world has not been getting warmer, it has been getting colder for the last 8 years. See the links posted at http://www.peswiki.com under “Global Cooling”.